Hybrid Tea Rose by Mrs. Herbert Stevens (4 May 2008) via Wikimedia Commons Open Rose Y-DNA Surname Project
 
Hybrid Tea Rose by Mrs. Herbert Stevens (4 May 2008) via Wikimedia Commons
 
Links Hub to Lineages, Results, and Analyses of Y-DNA Haplogroup R1b ROSE's
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Y-DNA Haplogroups Represented in the Project
E G I1 I2 J L Q R1a R1b T
Haplogroup R1b is the most common haplogroup in western Europe reaching a frequency of 70-80% in the British Isles (please see distribution maps).  One 12-marker haplotype, in particular, is the most common haplotype in western Europe, and it's called the "Western Atlantic Modal Haplotype" or WAMH.  If you have one of the top four most common R1b 12-marker haplotypes, you will have a "WAMH" logo on your member page at FTDNA, and you will have hundreds, if not thousands, of 12/12 matches in various Y-DNA databases, with few, if any, having any genealogical significance for you. 

Because R-1b1a-2a1a-1b4 (= R-L21) is by far the most common subclade of R1b, the modals for its includise upstream clades (e.g., R-P312 and R-M269) are the same. 

Being R1b is the genetic equivalent of being surnamed SMITH.  To tell one SMITH from another, with certainty, you need more information beyond just the surname, in fact, as much additional information as possible.  DNA testing is similar:  testing more markers is the genetic equivalent of gathering more information to determine conclusively that a possible match is a true match.  If you are Haplogroup R1b1a2 and have a common haplotype, you are definitely a genetic "SMITH."

Anyone who is Haplogroup R1b1a2 needs to test at least 37 markers to be confident of a match because I have seen a 23/25 match in R1b drop to 28/37 (please see "What Constitutes a Match" at the bottom of the page to appreciate the significance of such a drop).

Below are the groups of R1b ROSEs that I have worked on, so far:
A A1 A2 B BX C CX D E F G H I J J1
K K1 K2 L L1 M M1 N O OX OY P Q S T
T1 T2 TX TY U U1 V W X Y Z AA BB CC DD
EE FF GG HH II JJ               Unassigned
SUMMARIES

Group G:  Kilravock ROSE Haplogroup R1b-L21
Progenitors
Test subjects with known paper connections to the Barons of Kilravock: 
Rev. Robert ROSE (1703-1751) immigrant to Virginia
Donald ROSE (c1727) immigrant to Nova Scotia
Hugh ROSE (1738- ) of Inverness, SCT
Alexander ROSE (1738-1807) of Inverness, SCT, then VA, then NC
James ROSE (1762- ) of Inverness, SCT, then NY
John ROSE (c1775- ) of Angus, SCT
Alexander ROSE (c1860- ) of Nova Scotia
Johannis ROSE (c1650s- ) of Warwickshire and Kent, ENG
John ROSE (c1804- ) of Peebleshire, SCT

Group K:  ROSE - SMITH Haplogroup R1b-U198
Progenitors
John ROSE (c1700-1755) of Salem, NJ
Samuel ROSE (c1700- ) of Tuckerton, Ocean Co., NJ
Ezekiel ROSE (c1710-1768) of Hunterdon Co., NJ
David ROSE (c1724-1781) of Long Island, NY, Lancaster Co., PA, and MD
Matthias ROSE (1727- ) of Albany and Saratoga Cos, NY, and ON, Canada
Abraham ROSE (1729- ) of Cumberland Co., NJ
Robert ROSE (c1731- ) of Frederick Co., VA, and possibly Hunterdon Co., NJ
Robert ROSE (c1770- ) of Washington Co., PA, and Montgomery Co., KY
Israel ROSE (c1739-1790) of Orange Co., NY
William ROSE (1747- ) of Orange and Onondaga Cos., NY
John ROSE (1764-1825) of Greene Co., PA
William ROSE (c1790- ) of Otsego Co., NY
Daniel Darius ROSE (c1792- ) of York Co., ME, and Randolph Co., AR
Abraham Lacy ROSE (1794-1869) of Seneca Falls, NY, and Marion Co., IA
Emanuel ROSE (c1794- ) of Cherokee Co., NC, and Fannin Co., GA
Stagton ROSE (c1802- ) of NJ and Somerset Co., PA
Henry ROSE (1804- ) of NY
Benjamin F. ROSE (1806/7->1870) of Long Island, NY, OH, and WI
Alexander SMITH (1839- ) of PA and New Orleans, LA

The descendant of Alexander SMITH appears to have an NPE in his patrilineal line because he is a 67/67 match with the modal haplotype for Group K. 

Group K1 Haplogroup R1b-U198
Progenitor
John David ROSE (1761-1843) of Hampshire Co., (W)VA, and Wolfe Co., KY

All of the ROSE members of Group K1 descend from John David ROSE, including an adopted individual surnamed EUSTICE.  Their modal haplotype has a GD of only one from the modal haplotype of Group K (above), so there's no doubt they have a common ancestor; and, in fact, there is little reason to split them off Group K, beyond convenience because John has many descendants.

Progenitors BROWN Group 64
Alexander BROWN (c1740s-1791) of Lancster and Luzerne Cos., PA
Robert BROWN (1812-1893) of Tandragee, co. Armagh, IRL
ROSE - BROWN STR Cladogram

Given the similarity of the 37-marker haplotypes of the Group K1 ROSEs and those of Group 64 at the BROWN surname project, three descendants of Alexander BROWN have been included in ROSE Group K1 by the RFA.  A cladogram based on their 67-marker haplotypes, however, indicates there is no justification for placing them in Group K1 (or K).  These BROWNs and ROSEs may have a connection around the time of surname adoption, but it's unlikely a paper connection would be found so, IMO, it's a waste of time to keep looking for one.  It's yet another lesson in the need for all R1b's to test 67 markers.  Please see discussion included with the cladogram and on the results table

Group K2 Haplogroup probably R1b-L21
Progenitors
Jeremiah ROSE (c1729-1754) of St. Mary's Aylesbury, England
James ROSE (1755-1816) of England and Prince William Co., VA

The ROSE project suggests that Group K2 bears a relationship to Groups K and K1.  While the K2 individuals match each other 37/37, they have only a 28/37 match with the modal haplotype of Group K and only a 27/37 match with Group K1, which are decided non-matches.

Group L:  ROSE - SANDY - HORTON - HALL Haplogroup R1b-S20749
 

Progenitors
John ROSE (1706- ) of King George Co., VA
William ROSE (c1710s-1752) of King George Co., VA
John ROSE (1802-1890) of Centre Co., PA
William Hamer ROSE (1816-1888) of England and VA
Unknown ROSE & Nancy SANDY of Westmoreland Co., VA
Nimrod A. HORTON (1771/2-1851) of Lincoln Co., NC
John HALL (1755- ) of VA and Montgomery Co., NC
All of the above are closely related and have a near common ancestor, including the SANDY, HORTON, and HALL who apparently have NPEs in their lines.  The alleged connections of this family to the Kilravock, Invergordon, and Perthshire ROSEs are not supported by the DNA evidence, nor do I see any particular relationship between the Group L ROSEs and the Group L1 ROSEs (see below).

Group L1:  five unrelated families
 

Progenitors
L1a Alexander ROSE (1750-1815) of Invergordon, SCT
L1b William ROSE (c1750s-1807) of Frostburg, Washington Co., MD
L1c William A. ROSE of NJ and Stamford, CT
L1d Donald R. ROSE of Perthshire, SCT
L1e Isaac ROSE (c1753-1829) of Birch River, Nicholas Co., (W)VA
With the possible exception of L1a and L1b, the above five families are not closely related, which is the reason I've given them individual subgroup designations.  With the exception of the three Invergordon ROSEs, each of the other lines should, in my opinion, remain in the "unassigned" category because grouping them together is misleading.

Group P:  ROSE of NC, TN, and VA
 

Progenitors
William ROSE (<1732-1786) of Halifax Co., NC
Thomas David ROSE (1795/6- ) of Moore Co., NC
Thomas ROSE (c1775- ) of Frederick/Warren Co., VA
Joseph ROSE (c1767-1839) of Alleghany Co., VA
William Washington ROSE (1822-1895) of Alleghany Co., VA
William ROSE (1815-1891) of NC and Roane Co., TN
Napoleon E. ROSE of VA
With one possible exception, the above are a tightly matched group with an uncommon haplotype.

Groups T / T1 / T2:  ROOSA of Holland > ROSE of Ulster Co., NY
 

T / T1 / T2 Progenitor
T Gijsbert Geurts1 ROOSA (c1550- ) of Holland
Aldert Heymanse3 ROOSA (c1621-1679) of Herwijnen, NL, and Ulster Co., NY
T1 Johannes5 ROOSA (1742- ) 
T2 Samuel5 ROSE (1725- )
All of the Group T, Group T1, and Group T2 ROSEs are the same family.  Of the 26 individuals tested, most have a GD from the modal haplotype of only 0 or 1 (just one has a GD of 2 and just one has a GD of 3).  The one tested individual of a ROOSA line still resident in Holland is modal at 37 markers.  Americans all descend from Aldert3, grandson of Gijsbert1.  Group T1 is modal, except for one shared mutation.  Group T2 is not genetically distinct from Group T; they were apparently spun off based on their paper genealogy.  Four individuals with paper descents from Aldert3 apparently represent two different NPE events.

Group TX:  ROSE of Sullivan Co., NY
Progenitor

Groups TY:
Progenitor

Group Unassigned
Progenitors
Bazil ROSE (c1764-1826) of Callaway Co., MO
Mr. GRONAUER of Germany
These two individuals are closely related.  As the ROSE has no match in the ROSE project, the odds are he's the one with the NPE.  Certainly, he is not a biological descendant of John ROSE of Group L, as alleged.
Progenitor
John  ROSE (c1818-1875) of Thirsk, Yorkshire, England
At 37 markers, this individual has no matches at Ysearch, even accepting a GD of 6.  His haplotype remains unique.

One reason I have used the R1b modal and colored its table cells blue (well, technically, cyan) is to emphasize that we are mostly modal as we would expect because that's the definition of modal and to encourage you to ignore the "sea of blue" as background noise.  Instead, concentrate on the differences from the modal, especially, the consistent differences.  These consistent differences are the values that characterize families (please see my page on "signature markers" for a further discussion). 

Before you start examining the details of the charts, and if you have a large enough monitor, I recommend leaning back and getting an overall impression of the consistencies (or inconsistencies) between the blocks of rows by looking at just the color patterns.  When you have grouped results correctly, the consistency within families is striking and the jumble of non-related individuals is equally apparent.

In the tables, if the Ysearch UserID is in blue, it means I was the one who created the account.  I will be creating these accounts for ROSE family modal haplotypes, so ROSEs who upload to Ysearch will quickly see which modal they resemble.

Modal ROSE Haplotypes in Haplogroup R1b
GD = Genetic Distance, the number of mutation events separating two haplotypes.  In this case, it's the GD from one or the other of the top two R1b modal haplotypes.
Listed below are the modal haplotypes of each of the separate R1b families I've so far examined from the data sent to me or gleaned from Ysearch.  If they seem to be a hodge-podge of mis-matches, they are, which is the reason they've been identified as separate families.  If you are R1b and want to peruse the possibilities for your match, you can compare your haplotype to the ones below in light of the values in the "What Constitutes a Match" listing below.  If you don't come close to any of them, then you would need to send me your data, so I can add your family to the table.
Please note that you can easily match someone perfectly at 12 markers, even another ROSE, and still not be a related to them, at least not in a genealogical time frame we're all related if you go back far enough.  Likewise, you can have a near match to someone at 25 markers, even another ROSE, and still not be related to them.  Only in cases where the R1b haplotype is rare can you have any confidence in a match at less than 37 markers, and even then I would want to be entirely certain and upgrade to 37 markers and preferably 67.

For example, the value of 16 at DYS437 is quite rare (see the ROSE-SANDY-HORTON-HALL family below).  But even in a case such as this one, with one rare value, I would still want to go to 37 markers because, at 25 markers, this haplotype has a genetic distance of only two from one of the R1b modal haplotypes.

I've given the groups descriptive names to make them easier (at least for me) to remember.  These names may change as earlier progenitors are identified.  If you can think of better names, please feel free to suggest them.
G
R
O
U
P
GD
(cummulative)
Family  Ysearch
UserID
Haplotype as determined by STR testing Sample Size
Markers 1-12 Markers 13-25 Markers 26-37 Markers 38-67
at
12
at
25
at
37
at
67
3
9
3
3
9
0
19
/
3
9
4
3
9
1
a
|
3
8
5
b
|
3
8
5
4
2
6
3
8
8
4
3
9
i
|
3
8
9
3
9
2
ii
|
3
8
9
4
5
8
a
|
4
5
9
b
|
4
5
9
4
5
5
4
5
4
4
4
7
4
3
7
4
4
8
4
4
9
a
|
4
6
4
b
|
4
6
4
c
|
4
6
4
d
|
4
6
4
4
6
0
H4
|
G
A
T
A
IIa
|
Y
C
A
IIb
|
Y
C
A
4
5
6
6
0
7
5
7
6
5
7
0
a
|
C
D
Y
b
|
C
D
Y
4
4
2
4
3
8
5
3
1
5
7
8
a
|
S1
3
9
5
b
|
S1
3
9
5
5
9
0
5
3
7
6
4
1
4
7
2
S1
4
0
6
5
1
1
4
2
5
a
|
4
1
3
b
|
4
1
3
5
5
7
5
9
4
4
3
6
4
9
0
5
3
4
4
5
0
4
4
4
4
8
1
5
2
0
4
4
6
6
1
7
5
6
8
4
8
7
5
7
2
6
4
0
4
9
2
5
6
5
R1b Modal Values XQJ7H 13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 15 15 17 17 11 11 19 23 16 15 18 17 36 38 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 23 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 12 12 Modal values per Mike Walsh (as of 6 Jan 2011).
T 0  4  6   Dutch ROOSA WAD6V 13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 18 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 28 15 15 16 16 11 11 19 23 16 15 18 18 36 38 11 12                                                             n=6 at 12 markers; n=5 at 25 markers; n=2 at 37 markers
K 2  6 12   ROSE-SMITH S8WP7 12 23 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 14 13 30 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 18 31 15 15 16 17 11 11 19 22 16 14 18 17 38 40 12 12                                                             n=31 at 25 markers; n=15 at 37 markers
K2 2  5 13   English ROSE 8MQZ2 13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 11 14 13 30 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 18 29 15 15 16 16 11 11 19 21 16 15 18 19 38 40 11 12                                                             n=3
G 4 10 19   Kilravock ROSE Z5EAR 14 25 14 11 10 14 12 12 12 14 13 30 16 9  9 11 11 25 15 19 32 14 15 17 17 11 11 19 23 15 15 19 18 38 42 12 12                                                             n=8 at 12;  n=7 at 25; n=5 at 37; values for CDYb = 39, 41, 42, 42, and 43, so 42 may not be the actual modal
L 0 2 7   ROSE-SANDY-HORTON-HALL 5Z7SF 13 24 14 10 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 17 9 10 11 11 25 16 19 29 15 15 16 17 10 11 19 23 16 15 18 17 35 36 12 13                                                             n=10 at 25 markers; n=5 at 37 markers
L1d 1 2     Perthshire ROSE TRC8U 13 24 14 10 11 14 12 12 13 13 13 29 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 15 15 17 18                                                                                     n=1 at 25 markers
L1a 1 3     Invergordon ROSE   13 24 14 10 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 30 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 31 15 15 17 17                                                                                     n=3 at 25 markers
? 0 4 9   ROSE - GRONAUER 6M9WY 13 24 14 10 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 24 15 19 29 15 16 16 17 11 11 19 23 15 15 19 17 37 37 11 12                                                             n=2 at 25 markers; n=1 at 37 markers
L1b 0 3     Frostburg ROSE   13 24 14 10 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 31 15 15 15 17                                                                                     n=1 at 25 markers
L1c 1 5 8   Stamford ROSE 68PSS 13 24 14 10 11 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 17 9  9 11 11 25 15 19 31 15 15 17 18 10 11 19 23 16 15 17 17 36 37 12 12                                                             n=1 at 25 markers
L1e 1 8 14   Birch River ROSE 3EKUC 13 24 14 10 11 14 12 12 13 13 13 29 17 9 10 11 11 26 15 19 33 15 15 15 17 10 11 19 23 17 15 17 19 37 38 12 12                                                             n=1 at 37 markers


What constitutes a match?
Matches in other surnames are usually mere coincidence, so please ignore them I'll let you know when you shouldn't!
For 12 markers: 9 or less is a non-relative; for 10-12 markers, please see this table compiled by FTDNA.
For 25 markers: 21 or less is a non-relative; for 22-25 markers,
For 37 markers: 31 or less is a non-relative; for 32-37 markers,
For 67 markers: 59 or less is a non-relative; for 60-67 markers,
For 111 markers: 100 or less is a non-relative; for 101-111 markers,
For any test:  0 matching markers, please contact NASA.

 
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Hybrid Tea Rose by Mrs. Herbert Stevens (4 May 2008) via Wikimedia Commons

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

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