Hybrid Tea Rose by Mrs. Herbert Stevens (4 May 2008) via Wikimedia Commons Open Rose Y-DNA Surname Project
 
Hybrid Tea Rose by Mrs. Herbert Stevens (4 May 2008) via Wikimedia Commons
 
Lineages, Results, and Analysis of Y-DNA Haplogroup R1b ROSEs from "Group L"
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Y-DNA Haplogroups Represented in the Project
E G I1 I2 J L Q R1a R1b T
The Group L ROSEs consist of some southern families and a Pennsylvania family whose immigrant ancestor and origins have long been sought — the proverbial "brick wall."  In this case, matches have united some expected and unexpected lines of ROSEs, plus lines of SANDY, HORTON, JEFFRIES, and HALL.  Obviously, there are some NPEs represented here, though it is not clear just who has them.

BigY testing of one family member (#167308) shows his terminal SNP is R-S20749.  The exact position of this SNP on the R1b haplotree is still not positively determined (as of 22 Mar 2017), but it's downstream of L21.

My interest here is that I descend from John ROSE (1706-), of Stafford [now King George] Co., VA, on this line:  John1 > Bennett2 > Abner3 > Bennett4 > William Jefferson5 > William Lee6 > Anna California7 (ROSE) MATTHIESEN, my paternal grandmother.
To view more of the page without scrolling, temporarily reduce the text size or page size in your browser.  Red labels indicate markers that typically mutate more frequently than those labeled in black.  (Empty cells that are darkened indicate tests not ordered.)  Keywords for search engines: genetic genealogy.

GD = Genetic Distance, the number of mutation events separating two haplotypes.  In this case, it's the GD from the test subject to the modal haplotype for Group L (ROSE-SANDY-HORTON-HALL-JEFFRIES).
To view lineages, please scroll to the right.
Genetic Distance
(per panel)
Earliest Ancestor Kit# Ysearch
UserID
FF Most
down-
stream
positive
SNP
actually
tested
  Panel 1 — Standard Markers 1-12   Panel 2 — Standard Markers 13-25   Panel 3 — Standard Markers 26-37   Panel 4 — Standard Markers 38-67   Panel 5 — Standard Markers 68-111   Known Lineage
STR PP3 PP5 MP6 MP7 MP8 MP9 [mixed] MP10 [EA] MP11 [SMGF] MP12 [all new] MP13 [mixed]
12 25 37 67 111 3
9
3
3
9
0
19
/
3
9
4
3
9
1
a
|
3
8
5
b
|
3
8
5
4
2
6
3
8
8
4
3
9
i
|
3
8
9
3
9
2
ii
|
3
8
9
4
5
8
a
|
4
5
9
b
|
4
5
9
4
5
5
4
5
4
4
4
7
4
3
7
4
4
8
4
4
9
a
|
4
6
4
b
|
4
6
4
c
|
4
6
4
d
|
4
6
4
4
6
0
H4
|
G
A
T
A
IIa
|
Y
C
A
IIb
|
Y
C
A
4
5
6
6
0
7
5
7
6
5
7
0
a
|
C
D
Y
b
|
C
D
Y
4
4
2
4
3
8
5
3
1
5
7
8
a
|
S1
3
9
5
b
|
S1
3
9
5
5
9
0
5
3
7
6
4
1
4
7
2
S1
4
0
6
5
1
1
4
2
5
a
|
4
1
3
b
|
4
1
3
5
5
7
5
9
4
4
3
6
4
9
0
5
3
4
4
5
0
4
4
4
4
8
1
5
2
0
4
4
6
6
1
7
5
6
8
4
8
7
5
7
2
6
4
0
4
9
2
5
6
5
7
1
0
4
8
5
6
3
2
4
9
5
5
4
0
7
1
4
7
1
6
7
1
7
5
0
5
5
5
6
5
4
9
5
8
9
5
2
2
4
9
4
5
3
3
6
3
6
5
7
5
6
3
8
4
6
2
4
5
2
4
4
5
A10
|
G
A
T
A
4
6
3
4
4
1
1B
07
|
GG
AA
T
5
2
5
7
1
2
5
9
3
6
5
0
5
3
2
7
1
5
5
0
4
5
1
3
5
6
1
5
5
2
7
2
6
6
3
5
5
8
7
6
4
3
4
9
7
5
1
0
4
3
4
4
6
1
4
3
5
1 2 5 6 11 R1b-L21 Modal Values   13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29   17 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 15 15 17 17   11 11 19 23 16 15 18 17 36 38 12 12   11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 23 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 12 12   35 15 9 16 12 26 26 19 12 11 13 12 11 9 12 12 10 11 11 30 12 13 24 13 10 10 20 15 19 13 24 17 12 15 24 12 23 18 10 14 17 9 12 11    
0 0 0 0 0 Family Modal Values   13 24 14 10 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29   17 9 10 11 11 25 16 19 29 15 15 16 17   10 11 19 23 16 15 18 17 35 36 12 13   12 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 22 23 17 10 12 12 15 7 13 23 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 12 12   35 15 9 16 11 25 26 19 12 11 13 12 11 9 13 12 10 11 11 30 12 13 24 13 10 12 22 15 19 12 24 18 12 15 24 12 23 19  9 14 17 9 12 11   n=14 at 12 markers; n=13 at 25 and 37 markers; n=7 at 67 markers; n=4 at 111 markers
                                               
0 0 0 0 0 John ROSE of VA 167308 DK8J4 FF S20749   13 24 14 10 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29   17 9 10 11 11 25 16 19 29 15 15 16 17   10 11 19 23 16 15 18 17 35 36 12 13   12 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 22 23 17 10 12 12 15 7 13 23 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 12 12   35 15 9 16 11 25 26 19 12 11 13 12 11 9 13 12 10 11 11 30 12 13 24 13 10 12 22 15 19 12 24 18 12 15 24 12 23 19  9 14 17 9 12 11   Pvt9 Chas. Harris8 Charles Harris7 Abner Alexander6   Burtice Smith5 Bennett4 Abner3 Bennett2 John1 ROSE (1706- ) — of King George Co., VA
0 0 0 0 1 John ROSE of VA 5601       13 24 14 10 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29   17 9 10 11 11 25 16 19 29 15 15 16 17   10 11 19 23 16 15 18 17 35 36 12 13   12 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 22 23 17 10 12 12 15 7 13 23 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 12 12   35 15 9 16 11 25 26 19 12 11 13 12 11 9 13 12 10 11 11 30 12 13 24 13 10 12 23 15 19 12 24 18 12 15 24 12 23 19  9 14 17 9 12 11   Pvt8 Thos. Alexander7 Wm. Jefferson6 Alfred Alexander5
0 0 0 1   John ROSE of VA 2993   FF     13 24 14 10 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29   17 9 10 11 11 25 16 19 29 15 15 16 17   10 11 19 23 16 15 18 17 35 36 12 13   12 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 22 23 17 10 12 12 15 7 12 23 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 12 12                                                                                             Pvt8 Pvt7 Edward Earl6 William Jefferson5
1 0 1 2 0 John ROSE of VA 411028     Pending   13 23 14 10 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29   17 9 10 11 11 25 16 19 29 15 15 16 17   10 11 19 23 16 15 18 18 35 36 12 13   12 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 22 23 17 10 12 12 15 7 13 23 20 13 12 11 15 11 11 12 12   35 15 9 16 11 25 26 19 12 11 13 12 11 9 13 12 10 11 11 30 12 13 24 13 10 12 22 15 19 12 24 18 12 15 24 12 23 19 9 14 17 9 12 11   Pvt8 Pvt7 Thos. Turbeville6 Levi Bennett5 Permenias Taylor4 John3
1 0 1     John ROSE of VA 6802         13 23 14 10 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29   17 9 10 11 11 25 16 19 29 15 15 16 17   10 11 19 23 16 15 18 18 35 36 12 13                                                                                                                                                           Pvt… - - - -
0 0 0 1   William ROSE of VA 7336         13 24 14 10 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29   17 9 10 11 11 25 16 19 29 15 15 16 17   10 11 19 23 16 15 18 17 35 36 12 13   12 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 22 23 17 10 12 12 15 7 13 23 20 12 12 11 13 11 11 12 12                                                                                             Pvt8 Pvt7 Jacob Albert6 Jonathan Jackson5 John4 Benjamin3 Francis2 William1 ROSE (c1710s- ) — of King George Co., VA
0 0       William ROSE of VA 64035 V2GQ4       13 24 14 10 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29   17 9 10 11 11 25 16 19 29 15 15 16 17                                                                                                                                                                                     Pvt…
0 1 1 0 2 John ROSE of PA 7307 N37P8       13 24 14 10 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29   17 9 10 11 11 25 16 19 29 15 16 16 17   10 11 19 23 16 15 18 17 36 36 12 13   12 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 22 23 17 10 12 12 15 7 13 23 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 12 12   34 15 9 16 11 25 26 19 12 11 13 12 11 9 13 12 10 11 11 30 12 13 24 13 10 11 22 15 19 12 24 18 12 15 24 12 23 19  9 14 17 9 12 11   Pvt6 Pvt5 Bernard Earl4 William F3 William Craig2 John1 ROSE (1802-1890) — of Centre Co., PA
1 0 0     John ROSE of KY 203969   - -   13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29   17 9 10 11 11 25 16 19 29 15 15 16 17   10 11 19 23 16 15 18 17 35 36 12 13                                                                                                                                                           Pvt… - - - - "John (Catharine) KY; Walker (Edith Kemper) 1802 Oldham KY"
1 0 0 0   Wm Hamer ROSE of VA 33007   - -   13 24 15 10 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29   17 9 10 11 11 25 16 19 29 15 15 16 17   10 11 19 23 16 15 18 17 35 36 12 13   12 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 22 23 17 10 12 12 15 7 13 23 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 12 12                                                                                             Pvt… Newton Hamer2 William Hamer1 ROSE (1802-1890) — of VA, IL, and Ross Co., OH 
                                               
0 1 0 2   JEFFRIES ?   - -   13 24 14 10 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29   ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?   10 11 19 23 16 15 18 17 35 36 12 13   ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?                                                                                             Pvt...
0 1 0     Nimrod A. HORTON 19299 JW589 - -   13 24 14 10 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29   17 9 10 11 11 25 16 19 29 14 15 16 17   10 11 19 23 16 15 18 17 35 36 12 13                                                                                                                                                           Pvt5, William Clay4, Alloway John3, Nimrod H.2, Nimrod A.1 HORTON (1771/2-1851) — of Lincoln Co., NC, and Spartanburg Co., SC
0 0 0     Samuel SANDY 34779 FRP7J - -   13 24 14 10 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29   17 9 10 11 11 25 16 19 29 15 15 16 17   10 11 19 23 16 15 18 17 35 36 12 13                                                                                                                                                           Pvt5, Pvt4, Houston Lee3, William H.2, Samuel1 SANDY (c1799- ) — illegitimate son of Nancy SANDY of Westmoreland Co., VA
0 0 0     John HALL 76072   - -   13 24 14 10 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29   17 9 10 11 11 25 16 19 29 15 15 16 17   10 11 19 23 16 15 18 17 35 36 12 13                                                                                                                                                           Pvt6, Arnoldrus5, James Arnoldrus4, Philip Ivey3, Ezekiel Titus2, John1 HALL (1775- ) — VA to Montgomery Co., NC (descendants to Rowan Co., NC)
Discussion:
In the table above are the ten tested members of this ROSE family plus four in other surnames.  It's an open question which families have the NPEs, but it appears three out of the four do.  These ROSEs are categorized as "Group L" at the Rose DNA Project.  Individually, they are matching the family's modal haplotype with a genetic distances strongly supporting that they do, indeed, have a near common ancestor. 
I have not filled in all the values for the JEFFRIES because I cannot find his results at the JEFFRIES project.  I deduced what I have from his genetic distances from the others.
A value of 16 at DYS437 (purple table cells) appears characteristic of these ROSEs (i.e., it appears to be the most important of the family's "signature" markers).  Some experimenting at the SMGF (Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation*) database indicates that it's this value that most prevents them from having more matches.  Their closest match at SMGF with a ROSE is only 14/20.  If I change the value for DYS437 to 15, the modal value, they start getting 20/20 matches, though none in surname ROSE.  Likewise, if I experiment with searches at Ysearch and leave out DYS437, I get 612 matches within two markers!  We don't yet know, though it is possible to know, how far back in their lineage this mutation occurred, but it does hold promise as a distinguishing characteristic for this family, at least to the point where we arrive at the individual in whom this mutation occurred.


*SMGF was purchased by Ancestry.com, who took the site down.
IN SUMMARY
I do not believe the Group L ROSEs are related to the Kilravock ROSEs, the Invergordon ROSEs, or to any other of the Group L1 ROSEs, including Donald ROSE of Perthshire (see discussion of the reasons on this page), which means the Group L ROSEs have not broken through their brick wall and have not "crossed the pond."  It has not been proven that John ROSE of Centre Co., PA, is a descendant of John ROSE of King George Co., VA, only that they share a near common ancestor in genealogical time.  The SANDY line is illegitimate and carries the mother's surname, but with a father who was probably a ROSE (a sister of this woman actually married a ROSE, so he may very well be the father of his sister-in-law's child).  The HORTON and HALL lines would each appear to have an NPE in their patrilineal line, but time will tell which families really have the NPEs.  It could be these ROSEs.


What constitutes a match?
Matches in other surnames are usually mere coincidence, so please ignore them — I'll let you know when you shouldn't!
For 12 markers: 9 or less is a non-relative; for 10-12 markers, please see this table compiled by FTDNA.
For 25 markers: 21 or less is a non-relative; for 22-25 markers,
For 37 markers: 31 or less is a non-relative; for 32-37 markers,
For 67 markers: 59 or less is a non-relative; for 60-67 markers,
For 111 markers: 100 or less is a non-relative; for 101-111 markers,
For any test:  0 matching markers, please contact NASA.

 
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Hybrid Tea Rose by Mrs. Herbert Stevens (4 May 2008) via Wikimedia Commons.
 
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Hybrid Tea Rose by Mrs. Herbert Stevens (4 May 2008) via Wikimedia Commons

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

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