Hybrid Tea Rose by Mrs. Herbert Stevens (4 May 2008) via Wikimedia Commons Open Rose Y-DNA Surname Project
 
Hybrid Tea Rose by Mrs. Herbert Stevens (4 May 2008) via Wikimedia Commons
 
Lineages, Results, and Analysis of Y-DNA Haplogroup R-1b1a-2 ROSE from Group K2
in the ROSE DNA Project at FamilyTreeDNA
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Rose
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Y-DNA Haplogroups Represented in the Project
E G I1 I2 J L Q R1a R1b T
The purpose of this page is to allow members of Group K2 of the ROSE DNA Project — and genealogists researching these families — to more easily share and understand their test results.  Anyone who is a member of this group is encouraged to contact me.  Also, if you have upgraded to more markers or have been deep SNP tested, please share these results. 

The Rose Family Association Bulletin (2009: 5359) states that Group K2 is "possibly distantly related (overseas) to the Robert & Dorothy ROSE family (Group K & K1...)."  Groups K and K1 are closely related to each other — their modal haplotypes differ by only one mutation, as shown in the table below — but they are not closely related to Group K2. 

The genetic distances between the modal haplotypes of K2 and K/K1 are large (see guidelines below).  Also, Groups K and K1 are Haplogroup R-1b1a-2a1a-1a1 (R-U198).  They bear the three key marker values for U198 (highlighted in brighter blue), in addition to having been deep SNP tested with the result that their most downstream positive SNP is U198.  Group K2 is a different subclade, and I strongly urge someone in this group be deep SNP tested, so we'll know which one.  Yes, everyone is related if you go back far enough, but people in different haplogroup subclades haven't had a common ancestor for thousands of years, and certainly not within genealogical time.  Based on their haplotype, the Group K2 ROSEs are probably R-1b1a-2a1a-1b4 (R-L21), but unless someone is tested, we won't know for certain.

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Red labels indicate markers that typically mutate more frequently than those labeled in black.
To view lineages, please scroll to the right.
Genetic Distance
(cumulative)
Surname Kit # Ysearch
UserID
Haplotype Lineage
Markers 1-12 Markers 13-25 Markers 26-37 Markers 38-67
at
12
at
25
at
37
at
67
3
9
3
3
9
0
19
/
3
9
4
3
9
1
a
|
3
8
5
b
|
3
8
5
4
2
6
3
8
8
4
3
9
i
|
3
8
9
3
9
2
ii
|
3
8
9
4
5
8
a
|
4
5
9
b
|
4
5
9
4
5
5
4
5
4
4
4
7
4
3
7
4
4
8
4
4
9
a
|
4
6
4
b
|
4
6
4
c
|
4
6
4
d
|
4
6
4
4
6
0
H4
|
G
A
T
A
IIa
|
Y
C
A
IIb
|
Y
C
A
4
5
6
6
0
7
5
7
6
5
7
0
a
|
C
D
Y
b
|
C
D
Y
4
4
2
4
3
8
5
3
1
5
7
8
a
|
S1
3
9
5
b
|
S1
3
9
5
5
9
0
5
3
7
6
4
1
4
7
2
S1
4
0
6
5
1
1
4
2
5
a
|
4
1
3
b
|
4
1
3
5
5
7
5
9
4
4
3
6
4
9
0
5
3
4
4
5
0
4
4
4
4
8
1
5
2
0
4
4
6
6
1
7
5
6
8
4
8
7
5
7
2
6
4
0
4
9
2
5
6
5
R1b Modals XQJ7H 13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 15 15 17 17 11 11 19 23 16 15 18 17 36 38 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 23 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 12 12 per Mike Walsh (as of 4 Jan 2011)
R-U198 Modals 7PEEZ 13 23 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 15 15 17 18 11 11 19 22 16 14 16 17 38 38 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 23 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 13 12 Modals per DGM extracted from U198 Project (31 Aug 2009).
2 5 9   Group K Modals S8WP7 13 23 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 14 13 30 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 18 31 15 15 16 17 11 11 19 22 16 14 18 17 38 40 12 12                                                             n=31 at 12 and 25 markers; n=15 at 37 markers
3 6 10   Group K1 Modals KUYQ8 13 23 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 14 13 31 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 18 31 15 15 16 17 11 11 19 22 16 14 18 17 38 40 12 12                                                             n=14 at 12 markers; n=13 at 25 markers; n=8 at 37 markers
                 
Group K2 Modals 8MQZ2 13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 11 14 13 30 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 18 29 15 15 16 16 11 11 19 21 16 15 18 19 38 40 11 12                                                             n=4 at 12 markers; n=4 at 25 markers; n=3 at 37 markers
0 0 0   ROSE 26350   13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 11 14 13 30 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 18 29 15 15 16 16 11 11 19 21 16 15 18 19 38 40 11 12                                                             Pvt… William Penn5 Thomas Ivan4 William Penn3 James Ellis2 James1 ROSE (1755-1816) of England and Prince William Co., VA
[wife Jane CONOVER]
0 0 0   ROSE 139349   13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 11 14 13 30 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 18 29 15 15 16 16 11 11 19 21 16 15 18 19 38 40 11 12                                                             Pvt… … … Robert3
1 1     ROSE   AHMFB 13 24 14 11 11 11 12 12 11 14 13 30 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 18 29 15 15 16 16                                                                                     Pvt… … … …
0 0 0   ROSE   JDUM3 13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 11 14 13 30 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 18 29 15 15 16 16 11 11 19 21 16 15 18 19 38 40 11 12                                                             Pvt… … … … … _________… Jeremiah1 ROSE (c1729-1754) of St. Mary's Aylesbury, England
                 
Four matches were found at Ysearch, two of which (viz., 2JPTS and 4SZ37) appear to be the two with FTDNA kit numbers, but I can't tell which is which (if you're reading this and you're one of them, please let me know).  No significant matches in surname ROSE found at SMGF (as of 4 Sep 2009).
While it may appear that the genetic distance of AHMFB from the others is three, not one, at DYS385b, this difference is counted as one because it can result from a single mutation event known as a recLOH (recombinant loss of heterozygosity).  That is, rather than the allele at DYS385b having lost three repeats in three mutation events, the 11 allele has written over the 14 allele in one mutation event.  Any of the multi-copy markers can experience a recLOH event.
Data Sources:
"Rose Family DNA Project Results — to April 8, 2009." Rose Family Bulletin (June 2009).
Ysearch.; SMGF; ROSE Family DNA Project; ROSE-DNA Mailing List; email.
   

What constitutes a match?
Matches in other surnames are usually mere coincidence, so please ignore them — I'll let you know when you shouldn't!
For 12 markers: 9 or less is a non-relative; for 10-12 markers, please see this table compiled by FTDNA.
For 25 markers: 21 or less is a non-relative; for 22-25 markers,
For 37 markers: 31 or less is a non-relative; for 32-37 markers,
For 67 markers: 59 or less is a non-relative; for 60-67 markers,
For 111 markers: 100 or less is a non-relative; for 101-111 markers,
For any test:  0 matching markers, please contact NASA.

 
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Hybrid Tea Rose by Mrs. Herbert Stevens (4 May 2008) via Wikimedia Commons.
 
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Hybrid Tea Rose by Mrs. Herbert Stevens (4 May 2008) via Wikimedia Commons

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

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